Q. The very next day, WP6 and Rheinmetall got together in the above location to talk about turrets: no decisions was made, outside that the figured at best, the largest turret radius could be was 1565mm and still clear any obstructions: it was further though that the Existing Panther Turret would have to have a resolved rear plate - 20 degrees instead of 25. As I already explained, this is nonsense. Here, let me spell out what i'm thinking for you, just so you can be sure that we're on the same page: Yes, the Panther II in game is fictional. Well, there was an E-100 Chassis as well. Panther 2 in the game is complete work of fiction, and I will tell you why it is. © 2021 by Gaijin Games Kft. We have tanks fighting each other that never met in real life. Can't do much about the lack of 88 for the gun. © 2021 by Gaijin Games Kft. This is my last attempt at making it clear for you. Some time ago, you said that the Panther II and Tiger II 105mm were going to be removed and replaced. Panther II was never built. I could just aswell say that the E-100 was built, just because the hull was made. Seven days later, at another meeting with Speer in the Reichsministerium, it was codified that the Panther 2 project and the Tiger 2 project will share as much as possible as many parts as they could manage. But, plenty have seen it and ran with it. I believe from the front, the upper plate is ~260 effective, and the lower is ~180 effective. My guess would be a final mass of 55-60 tons for the Panther II … it unlocks the M47 in the american tree, and you can grind it out with German tanks... That way I don't have to worry about some sort of BS match-making that ends up putting entire teams of pattons against entire teams of pattons. By So something like this if we took the best reported plates with a corrected cupola thickness. A Panther F with KwK 44/2 would be a good medium support for the Tiger II H while the Panther II would be a good medium for the 105mm Tiger II… EDIT: The post is intended to give an alternative option to the Panther II and not to fully replace it. So you want to replace a domestic Third Reich built tank with an American tank? The name Patton II was used commonly to distinguish the M47 from the M46. The only semi-historical part about it, is the hull. Tiger H1; Challenger 2; Leopard 2A6; M50 Ontos; T-80U; ZTZ96A; T-50; Panther A; TIGER H1. They'll fill in for West Germany T5, as the Canadair did in the aviation branch. Here, do you see the correlation? has put in so much work to the tank that they will not simply throw it in the garbage. this kind of ignorant response from a community helper really?! It takes ages to even load a 88 from the hull. Most all of the "Description" pictures i've seen label dates as late 50's and into the 60's. Let me try a third time: The ONLY word I was switching, was built for completed. Tanks/Vehicles M47 Patton (II) as replacement for Panther II. That hull never mounted the "Schmallturm", and was never supposed to mount it. Many assumed that it was for the Panther, since by and large, Turret and Hull design was done more or less at the same time - they didn't think through the meetings Rheinmetall had on the modifications of the existing Panther Turret, and assumed that the above turret was meant for the Panther 2. If is was built and is historical it could be added. It's unlikely that the Germans would store the propellant in the hull. The Pz.Kpfw. If not (And it just turns into nonstop M47 Patton Vs. M47 Patton), Germany can keep their grubby hands off of the Pattons :|. No you clearly did not read my comment, neither did you read your own. What about all those drawings and the like from Spielberger and company regarding the Panther 2 turret? Though I wouldn't replace the Panther II... *half* of a domestic Third Reich built tank. I think the Indien Panzer would be a beter option (for Panther II replacement) if it ever had any prototype built, just because it was Germans designed tank for someone else, just like in case … My next comment would be that it seems you have an adequate GERMAN tank, to fit into the GERMAN  armed forces. (A US plane built by the land of maple syrup, marketed to the tea drinkers across the pond and bestowed to the Germans, still it's an allied plane.). This is a picture from 1956/1957. All of the allies kept finding examples with much heavier armour on them then the specs called for. Theoretically, if the panther 2 was removed (or fixed which would drop it down to about 6.3), what vehicle would this community want to take its place in the MM? The M47 would only really have a chance at a M103 if it was shooting into it's arse. Your thoughts? The only true replacement would be as usual leo prototypes; everything else is paper or fantasy. Discussions on if it would or not rested on a number of issues, one that got a lot of attention (For reasons I can't sort out) was the question regarding if the steel road wheels would be able to be used on other tanks, and if they would add too much weight to them. Not something the Germans would put onto a tank. http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m47patton.html      For all things American Tanks. Bf-109s, WOT, World War 2, old Nintendo systems,B-17 Flying Fortress, P-59 Airacomet, and I LOVE TO EAT KEY LIME PIE! © 2021 by Gaijin Games Kft. Your thoughts? do not post about whether a proposal SHOULD be implemented, and don't bring up the tiger 105 (I posted another topic for that), Since their adding the m48 next patch and already have a m47, Since the mig 15 bid is a thing in the German tech tree, The only thing they would need to do is to remodel the Schmallturm, it was supposed to have a Schmallturm and a 88mm, but the Schmallturm was modified to fit the gun, so instead of hiding it they should fix the turret, but back on topic, they could replace it with a Leopard proto, I cant think of anything else tbh. , The Maus and E-100 have probably the weakest armor for their weight of any tank. No wonder they ditched the project. Infamous from the battlefields of history and … The M47 was introduced as a stopgap measure until the M48 Patton was introduced. Enjoy it!Tower case: be quiet! Come on, I do it for you. 29 April 43 saw another meeting with Speer at the Reichsministerium where it was decided that if the Panther 2 was to go into full production, the Panther 1 would remain as well, though in roles such as the planned Heavy Assault Gun that later became known as the JagdPanther. The additional hull armour alone resulted in a 7 ton increase, let alone the later changes to the Panther II or the inclusion of the KwK 43 or HL 234. Now, it is my belief that this work was to lead to the Schmalturm that was then developed for the Panther F. The Panther II was cancelled in 1943. No, The Panther II was not completed. Thus Ignore the Title and use the previous sentence as the gist of the idea. Published by Gaijin Network Ltd. under the exclusive license. (Or, in your terms "Never finished".). For most, it is known as Spielbergers one big goof, and has been since removed from later publications of his. The Panther II’s weight should be much heavier. It only got built up to the chassis/hull before the USA captured it. Depends on where you're from. With the introduction of the US ground forces branch as well then the vehicle could rapidly and simply replace the Panther II and this would also be the most reasonable pursuit in proper vehicle vs. vehicle combat balance (even though the M47 and T-54 never fought). The Panther 2 project was disbanded, so the Panther 2 would have never been made, nor used in service. Um so nope as far as I know it never saw the production line. I'll do this via the pros and cons of the vehicle rather than a set of drawn out paragraphs. Work may still continue, but it was under the understanding that it would not result in a contract to build it, and more as a test mule for further concepts. Thats the most realistic scenario for a Panther II with KwK 43. indeed panther 2 was supposed to be fitted with 7,5cm gun, the schmalltrum tower with 88mm gun was part of E-50 project,  its a common mistake by many players think that panther 2 project have a 88mm gun, if u research deeper into panther 2 project u will see  your wrong. The Panther II, Tiger 10.5 and Coelian were never build, the Coelian was a Wooden Turret on a Panther Chassis (Coelian Chassis was supposed to be less armored) Panther II only had ist hull but never the 8.8 in the Schmalturm turret. In the market for War Thunder Equipment? Perhaps the way to do it is the following: You get to the top of the German line of whatevers (Panthers? Did you read the comment I replied to, and then read my comment? You could just scale up the Tiger I a bit would get a better tank than the Maus. Big difference. It was also decided that there would be no experimental models: it would go into construction and service without. It's now on display with an Ausf G turret. All of them non-functional. Oh thanks but it was just a prototype never saw action right? I think we shold just replace the turret on the current Panther II with something that looks like a mix between a Tiger II H turret and Panther F turret. It's just a Panther with some thicker armor for the most part. It's significance is just about nil in comparison to this import. as high as 90mm on the upper hull, 75mm on the lower. And the M103 would blow the M47 in half. Gameplay wise the vehicle would perform much better presumably and while it would create another 'clone' the competition would be more balanced. Alemania completa: Maus, Panther II, RU 251, Do 335 B-2. You correcting him is wrong. Published by Gaijin Network Ltd. under the exclusive license. Even debating performance characteristics isn't really justifying it, otherwise you'd get all of the turboprop planes and say that they're justified because their performance is generally less than that of jets. A (Panther A) is a rank IV German medium tank with a battle rating of 5.7 (AB/RB/SB). Replace paper tanks with paper tanks!! A heavier regular Panther? Too hard I suppose. This topic has been locked Obsidian Legate. Plans are in motion; just in order to get the equipment out of the game, we need several replacement … Main Gun and turret Handling Characteristics: So now that I've exhausted the useful information regarding technical details I'll give some reasoning as to why this change would be beneficial to the German tank tree as a Rank V rather than the Panther II. War Thunder > Generelle diskusjoner > Emnedetaljer. http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/90-mm-ammunition/       Ammunition characteristics and performances. A drawing - singular and not specific to the Program in any way - H-Sk A 86176 Dated 7 Nov 43 - long after the cancellation of the program - was found post war regarding a "schmalz Blendenausfuerung" (Narrow Gun Mantlet Model) that went into detail on how to mount a coaxial MG in the mantlet. Physics,Computers,Metallurgy,The SR-71's engines,CADD,YGO,RWBY. Well another German fantasy tank!! All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews ... Well if Panther II didn't existed why is the ho229 in the game? The Panther 2 was never completed, the hull was completed. An example of French plans drawn up after the war showing the 90mm upper and a 70mm lower. teo_storm1, November 5, 2014 in Implemented Suggestions. If that somehow was possible it would take ages for the rounds to load. Part of the Panther II was built, HOWEVER, it was not completed. The original Panther F would still retain its name while the lower ranked one would be something along the lines of 'Panzer V Ausf.F mit KwK 43. Understood? On 4 May 43, MAN held an internal meeting and come to the conclusion that the Panther 2 was going to go nowhere, and that further efforts on the established scale would be wasteful. All other firms that was being approached was then told as well that they would not be needed for the program and to continue with the current program that they was running under. You do know that this kind of response will not help everyone right? Thorthemighty is completely right. A Panther F with KwK 44/2 would be a good medium support for the Tiger II H while the Panther II would be a good medium for the 105mm Tiger II, if the 105mm Tigers gun would actually have the performance that it should have. I was making a statement that it was never completed, whereas you're arguing with me whether it's fictional in game or not. On 29 March 43, Dr. Blaicher (Chairman of the Hauptausschuss) passed on to the firms assembling the Panther that they was not to make any preparations to build the Panther 2: they would be safe in assuming that it would be very late 44 or early 45 before any desire to start production would be had. And that was the last of the official Panther 2 development. No.. It was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. Too hard I suppose. On 22 Jan 43, a letter to WaPruef6 (Hereafter referred to WP6) went over the basic considerations being the Panther 2. I think that if you want to play an M47, you should play the USA. War Thunder 2.3.0 no voice gameplay video. Speaking from a German players point of view, it would be imported into Germany from the USA. Maybe call it the Tiger II Late or something. Germany received over a thousand M47 Pattons. This means that War Thunder is allowed to have paper vehicles and the E-Series could bring some interesting gameplay changes in high tiers. If they do remove these vehicle what would replace them ? The Panther D has one of the slowest turrets in game, this gets better down the line until the Panther II … That was captured by the brits and I believe, was eventually scrapped. It didn't perform exceptionally well, however the Panther 2 … Get 75% off NordVPN! My general concern, and more or less the reason why I am saying I do not like the idea is for the same reason as what happened to the CL-13. Germany will also probably get a T-54 of some sort for East Germany. The M47. The vehicle was supplied to the West German army with 1120 vehicles provided. . German tanks were an important part of the Wehrmacht and played a fundamental role during the whole war… MY. The "Schmallturm" can't physically fit the 88mm KwK 43 L/71. It is complete work of fiction. More of a support tank and sniper than a brawl or push tank. ..... GOD. But PantherAl? The best you could hope for is that they add the Patton in somewhere. Half of a domestic tank is more or less than a tank imported to Germany that had absolutely no German influence? Well thats exactly how I imagined the turret to look like, without ever looking up the WoT model. Its main distinguishing factors from the Panther D or the Panther Gare; A new cupola (compared to the Ausf. Nazi Germany developed numerous tank designs used in World War II.In addition to domestic designs, Germany also used various captured and foreign-built tanks. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details. 1. mai 2018 kl. I rather have a well designed blueprint tank than some crazy prototype that would be completely useless in real life.   Roughly speaking, they believe that two new firms - Werk Falkensee and Nibelungwerk - would start to produce Panther 2's no earlier than Feb of 44 to June 44 roughly. Cam_the_man, September 10, 2018 in Heavy Vehicles. It was assumed that the weight of the Tank (Just the hull, not the turret) will go from 35 tons to 50. Schmallturm modified to look like Tiger II H model. That is a lie, and that, and only that, is my problem. By So: IF the Patton fights for the right side, I don't care. (So yes, neither saw combat.). You made the statement that it was completed. A. One more time: My sentence: [The] Panther II was never COMPLETED. Replace paper tanks with paper tanks!! http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/90-mm-ammunition/, http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m47patton.html, http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/US/M47_Patton.php, 90mm M36 Gun in M78 turret mount: 71 rounds, .50cal (12.7mm) M2HB in AA turret mount: 1700 rounds, .30cal (7.62mm) M1919A4E1 Co-ax turret mount: 11150 rounds, .30cal (7.62mm) M1919A4E1 Right hull bow ball mount: 11150 rounds, Actually existed, serially produced, was in service (refer above), Much more historical, correct and direct counterpart to T-54, Lower, smaller target (disregarding the AA MG, that doesn't poke too much however), Armour is similar if almost better on the front hull and turret, Turret is a significantly smaller target from the front, Gun mantlet is much better armour wise and protection wise, Could be a simple copy and paste with the introduction of the US tank line, specifics unknown so this is stretching it a bit, Not as fast (48km/h to the apparent 60km/h of the Panther II), Could have to be modelled completely from scratch (likely not however). Thus Ignore the Title and use the previous sentence as the gist of the idea. Note they was basing turret discussion on the existing turret design. A.P.-T (High velocity armour piercing tracer): A.P.-T: A.P.C.-T (Armour piercing composite tracer), HVAP-T at 1021.8m/s: AP-T at 853.44m/s: APC-T at 853.44m/s. Yes I read your comment; I was never talking to you or arguing with you about whether it was fictional or not. Tiger II … But I do love the idea of the M-47 Patton (II) at least it would give Germany a decent tank to battle the up coming M103s, and the T-54s, T-44s, and IS-4Ms, and IS-3s. If you had just substituted the word into the sentence we wouldn't even be here. Premios del pase de batalla T-10A, Matilda Hedgehog, ORP Garland (H37), F2G.J6K1. Powered by Invision Community, tanks, WW1, WW2, Entwicklung series, Wunderwaffe, future military technology, historical accuracy, Long legs, Red hair, slim waist, and a good singing voice. V Ausf. Pretty inefficent. From the looks of it you need to elevate the gun to even load the rounds. #warthunder #live_wt #workshop Oh, they were easier to mop up than kitchen dirt. War THunderJoin the Action and Get Some Awesome Rewards!https://gjn.link/DevilDogGamerDiscord for More Info … I wont discuss with you any further, as this only derails the topic. To conclude, you either have a actual real tank that was used, and physically possible (M47) or a complete work of fiction that would have never existed, nor could it, physically (Panther 2). how its suppose to have something that didn't existed at that time, Schmalltrum is later development along with concept of 88mm in Schmalltrum. Besides that, it would just add more doubles to WT. Guess someone had the same idea. Germans are better at defense than offense for the most part. I hope you can read for yourself. Like any Panther, the Panther A features a broad, sloping upper glacis, and the curved gun mantle. Theres nothing about the Panther II worth calling Panther II. IMO the maus shouldn't even be in game!! It wouldn't make sense to give it an 88 mm gun and a better engine and transmission for a project that was dead for 2 years. Panther II is a rank IV German medium tank with a battle rating of 7.0 (AB) and 6.7 (RB/SB). Powered by Invision Community, M47 Patton (II) as replacement for Panther II, °, effective armour values - 147.8mm and 126.2mm respectively, ° Traverse (manual or electro-hydraulic), 24, ° elevation and depression (manual or electro-hydraulic), 4, 90mm gun fires: H.V. It was also decided that the considerations - the lack of protection armour wise - that started the process of the Panther 2 was in error, as the existing Panther was performing to expectations. We don't need stuff that never existed. Nope. Pure Base 500 Window grauPower supply: be quiet! The E-50 and E-75 would give … But PantherAl? The M47 … Germany created a little under one Panther II. Fair question. you just need to take a book in your hand with 1st or 2ndary sources... yeah concept. Not sure on the Panther II … It was introduced during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41 as a main tree vehicle, however, as of Update 1.91 "Night Vision"it was shifted to become a gift vehicle for players who previously owned it. IMO the maus shouldn't even be in game!! No.. Never. Of course, that error was soon corrected, but not before it was spread via normally very reputable sources - sources that soon redacted those ideas. http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/US/M47_Patton.php     History/Background and Production numbers, also the picture. My third and final comment would be that if it's added, the MM needs to be FIXED, so that it's not like the Canadair Sabre. you just can't miss match tank parts and come up with your own version. The basis for this is from a seperate program from Krupp (The primary turret/gun designer for most if not all German tanks) that was working on ways to make Turrets better protected while still being useful. Basically, at this time, it was naught more than a slightly up armoured Panther tank - no really new features, and was only on paper. So I agree that the M47 had a large impact on the Bundeswehr, but It's just like... c'mon. War Thunder. $2.99 a month + 1 month FREE: https://nordvpn.org/phlydailyConnect With me!! On 3 June 43, Henschel - who was being held back from making the Panther 2 as they was slated to be the first to start production of it, was told to go ahead and cease all preparations, and start producing the Panther 1 right away. Find results that contain... Any of my search term words of my search term words I'll sort my ideas here in a minute. It was supposed to receive the 75 KwK 42 gun in a modified Panther A … And a 128mm gun on a 188t vehicle? Shortly after (I don't have solid dates for this), new Drawing Numbers (021-Gr50201 to 021-Gr50248) was assigned for the project: none was for any turret work. [Spoiler]. In Nuernberg on 10 Feb 43 a meeting was held, in which Dr. Wierbecke (MAN) said that according to what his company felt, that the exisiting Panther Design wasn't going to do the job, and that they needed to fund and approve the Panther 2, taking into account what was being done with the Tiger 2 as far as parts commonality )Transmissions, steering, final drives, and a host of other items). Germany already have Sabre so I see no problem to add M47. ), and as you reach the final tank (Panther II?) --> Maple Syrup --> Tea drinkers --> Germany) several times on the same side of the fence (They're ALL allies), and the finished product ended up on the other side of the fence, fighting its creators. the Panther II is a 1942 project and in spring '43 they decided to use an Schmalturm with an 88mm because of the planned standartization of equipment. Tried it with the T-72A, T-72B, T-72B (1989), T-64B, T-80B, T-55AM-1, and Panther II. So the "corrected" sentence would read: "[The] Panther II was never completed". A target date of May of 43 was set for construction drawings to be sent to the assembly firms. On 5 April 43, Herr Jeager of WP6 (Yes, that was his name - when I first saw that I had to dig up confirmation myself) wrote a letter to WP6 that at the last meeting of the Panzerkommision where MAN was present, they stated that they had every hope that a steel prototype of the hull would be fully ready for testing by the middle of August. We don't need stuff that never existed. After suffering through the Chieftain mk3 and mk5 (rip no APFSDS and pen nerf) I finally made it to the … Why not add some more spicy vehicles to see how they would perform if they existed? As for the Panther II it should simply be lowered and renamed to the Panther F, with a naming device such as that on the Tiger II Ausf.B mit KwK 46 (excuse the laziness with the proper naming). Apr 16, 2018 @ 12:13pm Tiger II 10.5 and Panther II removal ... the panther 2 is a panther … At the same time, it won't make the M47 an "end game" vehicle for Germany, and therefore would not have to make it Br 9.9 million. At no time was anyone approached for a proper turret design: the only time any discussions was made was back on 18 Feb 43 where they talked about the modifications to the existing Panther Turret. Published by Gaijin Network Ltd. under the exclusive license. If they do remove these vehicle what would replace them ? Doesn't really justify them getting it if it's out of the time line.

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